More rumblings of trouble between Jay and Ye come to the surface.

Last week, Kanye West told the crowd at a Saint Pablo Tour date that there will “never” be a Watch the Throne 2.

He expressed frustrations with his friendship with Jay Z, saying specifically that their children don’t play together and that he wished Jay had done more than just call after West’s wife Kim Kardashian was traumatically robbed at gunpoint in Paris.

He also explained that he and Jay were taken off of Drake’s VIEWS because of some “Apple/Tidal bullshit” and, supposedly, Jay’s reverence for Meek Mill. But their problems are deeper than that.

Roc-a-fella Records co-founder Karreem “Biggs” Burke told Page Six at the recent NYC Reasonable Doubt pop-up shop that he was surprised by Kanye spilling that frustration so publicly. ““I was shocked to hear what Kanye said onstage. There was never anything rumbling,” he said. “When you hear these things in public, it’s a little shocking.”

He continued: “The last I saw [West], he spoke really highly of Jay. I’m not sure about the relationship at this point. I spoke to Jay [after Kanye’s rant] and we’re both just like, ‘We miss the old Kanye.’ From what I know of Kanye, he’s usually really honest. So it sounds like something he’s going through right now. He may [say] something like that, and then three weeks later he may be back to, ‘That’s my brother.’ But at this point, with everybody’s career, we’re a little too old for rap beef.”

Watch Kanye’s rant against Jay Z below.



Read next: Jay Z and Kanye West’s Watch The Throne: Exploring the songs behind the samples

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