A few days after Wiley, Roll Deep Crew founder and Godfather of Grime, announced his shock retirement from MCing, FACT caught up with him for an emotionally charged and intense interview.
Wiley speaks faster and more forcefully than anyone we’ve ever met: every sentence is a stern lecture. He had a lot to get off his chest that day: about his disenchantment with grime, settling old scores with rival MCs, his fears for his personal safety, and his hopes for the future…
So, Wiley, how’s the album going?
It’s good, bruv, I’m just mixing it down now: it’s pretty much finished. It ’s not like [previous album] Treddin’ On Thin Ice. There’s more variety. I’ve got a lot of my mates on, you know? The Roll Deep MCs, some reggae artists. It’s more solid sounding than the mixtapes I’ve been putting our recently. But it’s true grime, I’m not going to make the same mistake that I made with [Roll Deep’s poppy first album] In At The Deep End again. With that album, we tried to break into the UK charts and we didn’t even do that.
The new album on Big Dada [Playtime Is Over] will be my best album ever. The difference with me is, while other people talk about making their best ever album, I don’t need to talk about it. I just do it. That is the difference with me bruv. So, yeah, I’m happy with it, at the moment, but saying that, next week I might not like it: I’m always moving on. But, anyway, it’s going to be my last album.
So the rumours of your retirement are true?
Yeah. I’m tired. I’ve been doing this since I was 15 years old. I’m 28 now. I need to get out of the game. I feel lonely and isolated. I’m the only one left here, from the start of the scene. Everyone else has moved on, or left. I need to get out: there’s too much of a contradiction between my life now, and grime. I’ve got a daughter, and coming home after doing radio, clashing other MCs, I look at her and just think, ‘Am I right? Am I wrong?’ I need to start taking responsibility for my life; I’ve got responsibilities now that I’m a father. I can’t keep on getting in beef with other MCs: words are powerful things. Very powerful.
You’re going to leave grime completely then?
Well, I’ll release the music I’ve recorded that hasn’t been released yet. And I’ll still do a bit of production: trust me, as long as there’s money to be made, I’ll be involved somehow. But I’m not gonna be MCing anymore.
Won’t it be weird, though, seeing other MCs taking over a scene that you created?
But how can you say that when it’s happening already? Every week, a new MC comes along and tries to knock me off the top. I don’t want to hang around and wait to be knocked off. Look at Roll Deep: there’s at least four MCs who could be stars, there. There’s so many youngers with talent out there.
A lot of people say grime was never better than a few years ago, say in around 2003, when it was you, Dizzee, Kano, Doogz, all putting out tracks and pushing things forward. Do you agree?
Well, you need to look at why those MCs like Dizzee, and Kano aren’t as good as that anymore. Because they left. Pirate radio is like training, you get me? It’s like football training before a big match: a big grime rave like Sidewinder is like a huge match. As soon as they left grime and left pirate radio, they left all that training, and you need to do that training. Ask Dizzee and Kano where they’re from and they’ll say ‘grime’ but they don’t mean it no more. I can hold my head up and say; I’ve had £300,000 and I’ve still been here, always. I’m true to where I come from.
How optimistic are you about grime’s future?
Grime’s not gonna blow for at least 10 years. The scene’s healthy, but hip-hop took what? 20 years? And then everyone was like, “raah, hip-hop”. Jungle, drum and bass: some of them DJs are millionaires now, but that took 10 years.
…and you’ll be long gone by then.
That’s what I saw! I looked ahead and saw that when grime does blow, it’s not going to be me leading it. It’s going to be some kid, having fun. So it’s time for me to get out.
Simon Hampson